Comments on: MoMA http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/ Art Is Where You Find It Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:38:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Zoe Sheehan Saldana http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-61 Zoe Sheehan Saldana Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:04:45 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-61 Dan, yes, you have summarized it well. The "blank" paintings certainly could be evocative, or provocative, but their power would come from the physical and visual reality of the painting itself - not because of the painting's connection to some other, imagined, reality. In theory the abstract painting is a real object not a symbolic object. There is also an interesting shift that happens with representational vs. abstract work in terms of the space of the museum itself. In a representational piece (such as a traditional landscape) you might look at it and feel transported from the museum space into the imaginary space of the painting. But in an abstract piece you see the work as existing in the real space of the museum - the here-and-now, not the imaginary. I think it would be fair to say that ALL paintings (and most other arts too) have elements of abstraction and elements of representation in them. Even the most 'realistic' painting is still brushstrokes on a canvas hanging on a wall! But some emphasize the abstract qualities more strongly than others. Dan, yes, you have summarized it well. The “blank” paintings certainly could be evocative, or provocative, but their power would come from the physical and visual reality of the painting itself – not because of the painting’s connection to some other, imagined, reality. In theory the abstract painting is a real object not a symbolic object.

There is also an interesting shift that happens with representational vs. abstract work in terms of the space of the museum itself. In a representational piece (such as a traditional landscape) you might look at it and feel transported from the museum space into the imaginary space of the painting. But in an abstract piece you see the work as existing in the real space of the museum – the here-and-now, not the imaginary.

I think it would be fair to say that ALL paintings (and most other arts too) have elements of abstraction and elements of representation in them. Even the most ‘realistic’ painting is still brushstrokes on a canvas hanging on a wall! But some emphasize the abstract qualities more strongly than others.

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By: Daniel Panit http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-58 Daniel Panit Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:01:55 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-58 Hmm interesting, so some of these "blank" paintings are made to be looked at how the painting is not what it evokes. Sort of like you are looking at the details of how it was painted. Although I may not agree with that idea, it does make sense to be considered art. Hmm interesting, so some of these “blank” paintings are made to be looked at how the painting is not what it evokes. Sort of like you are looking at the details of how it was painted. Although I may not agree with that idea, it does make sense to be considered art.

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By: Zoe Sheehan Saldana http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Zoe Sheehan Saldana Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:30:33 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-49 Siwen, the term 'Modern Art' usually refers to a specific time period in Western art beginning with the Impressionists (Manet, Degas, Cezanne, Monet) and the Expressionists (Van Gogh, and others) in the late 19th century. It goes through the 1950s, including works by the cubists (Picasso, Braque), the surrealists (Dali, Breton, Man Ray), the Dada-ists (Duchamp, Schwitters), the Abstract Expressionists (Pollock, Rothko). It is confusing because the word modern has many meanings but the term Modern Art in art history refers to a specific time period and art movement. After the late 1950s things started to change and the period from then til now is sometimes referred to as the Post-Modernist period but most often it is referred to as contemporary art. When someone has a good name for it, it probably means that its time has passed and so it can be named something specific. Until then 'contemporary' refers to whatever is happening in this moment. The Museum of Modern Art was founded in the early 1950s specifically to present Modernist work. It has expanded its field since then to include contemporary work as well. So, while Picasso and Van Gogh are not contemporary artists, their work is very much part of 'Modern Art'. Hope that helps. Siwen, the term ‘Modern Art’ usually refers to a specific time period in Western art beginning with the Impressionists (Manet, Degas, Cezanne, Monet) and the Expressionists (Van Gogh, and others) in the late 19th century. It goes through the 1950s, including works by the cubists (Picasso, Braque), the surrealists (Dali, Breton, Man Ray), the Dada-ists (Duchamp, Schwitters), the Abstract Expressionists (Pollock, Rothko). It is confusing because the word modern has many meanings but the term Modern Art in art history refers to a specific time period and art movement.

After the late 1950s things started to change and the period from then til now is sometimes referred to as the Post-Modernist period but most often it is referred to as contemporary art. When someone has a good name for it, it probably means that its time has passed and so it can be named something specific. Until then ‘contemporary’ refers to whatever is happening in this moment.

The Museum of Modern Art was founded in the early 1950s specifically to present Modernist work. It has expanded its field since then to include contemporary work as well.

So, while Picasso and Van Gogh are not contemporary artists, their work is very much part of ‘Modern Art’.

Hope that helps.

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By: Zoe Sheehan Saldana http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-48 Zoe Sheehan Saldana Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:19:58 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-48 Dan, people have written long books on this question but I will try to summarize as best I can and maybe that will help you understand if not appreciate the 'blank' works. Some painters are interested in representing the world (ie, figures, landscapes, still lives, etc. - recognizable shapes). Others work with abstraction (ie, they paint shapes, colors, etc. that are not supposed to be recognizable). The abstract painters are working with the idea that the painting only represents ITSELF not something beyond itself. That doesn't mean an abstract painting doesn't express larger ideas but it doesn't base those ideas on a presumed connection between the painting and some other reality it represents. You could say that the abstract painters are making paintings about painting, while the representational painters are making paintings about some other recognizable reality. This is a gross simplification but whatever. So the all-white paintings might be the painter's attempt to get you to look at painting (paint, canvas, brushstrokes) without the distraction of representation. There is definitely an in-your-face quality to these paintings especially when they first started appearing in the early 20th century. But by now these are pretty common and accepted in contemporary art and art historical canons. By the way an all-white painting might also suggest something about purity (in the West, white usually indicates purity) or death (in the East white is often associated with death). And it can make those suggestions without having to show a picture of an angel (or whatever representation of purity you prefer) or a dead body (or whatever representation of death you prefer). So you might say, "well aren't these abstract paintings also representational - they are communicating in a symbolic language just like the traditional representational painters are" and you would be right! Well I hope that helped. Dan, people have written long books on this question but I will try to summarize as best I can and maybe that will help you understand if not appreciate the ‘blank’ works.

Some painters are interested in representing the world (ie, figures, landscapes, still lives, etc. – recognizable shapes). Others work with abstraction (ie, they paint shapes, colors, etc. that are not supposed to be recognizable). The abstract painters are working with the idea that the painting only represents ITSELF not something beyond itself. That doesn’t mean an abstract painting doesn’t express larger ideas but it doesn’t base those ideas on a presumed connection between the painting and some other reality it represents.

You could say that the abstract painters are making paintings about painting, while the representational painters are making paintings about some other recognizable reality. This is a gross simplification but whatever.

So the all-white paintings might be the painter’s attempt to get you to look at painting (paint, canvas, brushstrokes) without the distraction of representation.

There is definitely an in-your-face quality to these paintings especially when they first started appearing in the early 20th century. But by now these are pretty common and accepted in contemporary art and art historical canons.

By the way an all-white painting might also suggest something about purity (in the West, white usually indicates purity) or death (in the East white is often associated with death). And it can make those suggestions without having to show a picture of an angel (or whatever representation of purity you prefer) or a dead body (or whatever representation of death you prefer). So you might say, “well aren’t these abstract paintings also representational – they are communicating in a symbolic language just like the traditional representational painters are” and you would be right!

Well I hope that helped.

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By: Daniel Panit http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Daniel Panit Mon, 24 Sep 2007 03:36:17 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-40 Like you I did not understand, or even come close to undestanding, the seemingly blank pieces of art. Can anyone give their perspective? Perhaps I am looking blindly because in looking at them I saw and felt nothing. Like you I did not understand, or even come close to undestanding, the seemingly blank pieces of art. Can anyone give their perspective? Perhaps I am looking blindly because in looking at them I saw and felt nothing.

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By: Anna-Maja Rappard http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-39 Anna-Maja Rappard Mon, 24 Sep 2007 03:26:12 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-39 "Art is more than thinking. It is doing. It is being. It is communicating. Meaning should not be as blank and empty as…." I think this is truly a great, concise statement, not only to conclude your review but in general. You have found a way to expand the reader's perception of art in general, and suggest a way to appreciate especially modern art which we often find so debateable. I am very intrigued by your review. In fact, I will probably visit the MoMA as part of the next review because I want to see for myself how the modern art displayed in this museum will impress me. “Art is more than thinking. It is doing. It is being. It is communicating. Meaning should not be as blank and empty as….”
I think this is truly a great, concise statement, not only to conclude your review but in general. You have found a way to expand the reader’s perception of art in general, and suggest a way to appreciate especially modern art which we often find so debateable.
I am very intrigued by your review. In fact, I will probably visit the MoMA as part of the next review because I want to see for myself how the modern art displayed in this museum will impress me.

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By: siwenliao http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-32 siwenliao Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:37:23 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-32 Wow, Moma seems a pretty cool place to be at. From what I have seen in our last couple of IDC's meetings, I think I am now more prepared to appreciate modern art. Honestly, I always think of art in the conventional way (the MET way). When you mentioned Picasso and Van Gogh, I was actually surprised; I did not know they were considered to be modern artists (maybe it's only my ignorance). Wow, Moma seems a pretty cool place to be at. From what I have seen in our last couple of IDC’s meetings, I think I am now more prepared to appreciate modern art. Honestly, I always think of art in the conventional way (the MET way). When you mentioned Picasso and Van Gogh, I was actually surprised; I did not know they were considered to be modern artists (maybe it’s only my ignorance).

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By: lu8943 http://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/2007/09/moma/comment-page-1/#comment-28 lu8943 Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:01:45 +0000 http://web.honorscollege.cuny.edu/seminars/saldana07/?p=101#comment-28 I totally agree with you. Moma's a great museum. Especially, they hold Van Gogh's original works. Only for that, it's totally worth going there. I totally agree with you. Moma’s a great museum. Especially, they hold Van Gogh’s original works. Only for that, it’s totally worth going there.

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