00:00:00 Henry
Hello, my name is Henry Mei. I am one of the six students working on the Voices of Jackson Heights project for Macaulay Seminar 2: the People of New York. I am going to be interviewing my brother Jason and my sister-in-law Kristi. Would you two like to introduce yourselves?
00:00:15 Jason
Yeah, hey, I’m Jason. I’ve lived in Queens my whole life.
00:00:22 Kristi
And I’m Kristi and I just moved to Queens like three years ago?
00:00:28 Henry
All right so, what is your relationship to Jackson Heights considering, you know, the different lengths the two of you have been here?
00:00:36 Jason
Well, I’ve been in Queens since I first immigrated to the States when I was about three years old or so. And I’ve been living in, I lived in Jackson Heights from middle school through high school. And you know, I lived elsewhere for a while. The city, Brooklyn, Hawaii and then came back to good old Jackson Heights.
00:01:10 Henry
And you, Kristi?
00:01:11 Kristi
I first moved to Queens, well, I’m originally from Florida and I moved to New York for a teaching position and then after I met Jason, we got married and on the same track we traveled a bunch. We lived in Hawaii, then when we came back, we both moved to Jackson Heights together.
00:01:35 Jason
Yeah, it’s been nice. Nice little homecoming.
00:01:37 Henry
Yeah, that’s great. So Jason, considering you’ve been here for a longer time relatively, I want to ask how was the neighborhood like when you first arrived? Or as early as you can remember, since you’ve, you know, been here since you were pretty young.
00:01:53 Jason
I mean it’s changed. But I think a better way of putting it is that I feel like the neighborhood continues to grow and it’s been a really, really beautiful thing to see.
00:02:07 Henry
How specifically has it grown? And this is open to both of you.
00:02:12 Jason
Well, it was always pretty vivacious. Obviously, Jackson Heights has always been like a beautiful melting pot. But I think what’s been really surprising to me when I came back was, it just felt like the streets were booming a little bit more. Like I remember one of the newest things I saw was Diversity Plaza and I thought how cool that was, because right as soon as you get out of the Roosevelt station now you get to just see a bunch of people speaking a bunch of different languages, just having coffee, sipping tea, eating their lunch on all these little colorful tables. And it’s nice, just feels nice.
00:03:01 Henry
Kristi, what’s your take?
00:03:03 Kristi
I’d say it’s a little bit harder for me to see the change. But what I do know is I lived in or worked in like all the boroughs of New York. So I like kind of know all the areas and I’d say my favorite thing about Queens is how diverse it is and also how at home I feel in Queens. In all the other boroughs like, I’d not necessarily that I’d feel out of place, but like I’m a Filipino American and a person of color. So when I’m walking around in Queens I see a lot of other people that look like me, and it’s very comforting to be in a place where I know, like I’m surrounded by a lot of people of color. Like we go through a lot of similar struggles, like a lot of them are immigrants. They remind me of my family. Even being like right next to Woodside, like there’s also a lot of Filipinos in this area as well. So it’s like I don’t know. It feels the most home compared to any of the other boroughs.
00:04:06 Henry
And since you bring up Diversity Plaza Jason, yeah, I also love Diversity Plaza being from the neighborhood myself. Another example of an open space that has come into fruition recently is the open street on 34th Ave. Have you two gotten a chance to use it much?
00:04:24 Jason
Yeah, so actually I’m really familiar with 34th Ave ’cause it’s how I used to bike from Jackson Heights to the city every day when I used to work in the city and was still living with dad and you guys. So I’m very familiar with 34th Ave. I actually love that they were able to close it down. And just, keep it an open road for pedestrians because it was a busy street and it was kind of nice to see the neighborhood kind of prioritize the quality of life of people walking around. Like being cognizant that there’s a lot of children in the neighborhood. There’s a lot of like elderly people going for walks. It was really nice to kind of like see the community advocate for their interests and just kind of decide there are enough streets, cars can go elsewhere. Let’s give a nice little walking path for people to just enjoy the greenery and scenery. I love that.
00:05:33 Henry
How would you like this specific stretch of 34th Ave in Jackson Heights to be improved in the future?
00:05:41 Jason
I mean, more greenery would be beautiful. Like right now in its current form, you can tell that it’s a street. Like it, for all intents and purposes, it looks like a street until you get closer and maybe there’s some gates or some banners that are kind of, or you know, a sign that tells you it’s closed off for cars. But it would be really, really lovely if like eventually the city or community reinvests into it, and it becomes, I don’t know. Even more like if they, you know, build concrete over the road and it was more of a plaza. Like a walking plaza or something. But I mean, I’m not going to complain, it’s being used. It’s really nice to see people play on the street and I think that’s great.
00:06:37 Henry
Kristi, do you have any thoughts on this?
00:06:38 Kristi
I feel like we go in that area to visit the park and we like pass through 34th and sometimes visit the farmers market that’s in that area as well.
00:06:50 Henry
So Travers park, yeah?
00:06:51 Kristi
Yeah, I feel like it would be so nice to see just even more events, like local events hosted along the street. So I know in the city there’s like street fairs and like festivals and stuff. It would be really cool to see like stuff that Jackson has to offer. If it was like on a weekly basis, just different things like that, like in the community. Like if there was a flea market that was in the area that would be really cool. I’d go to that all the time. Or like other activities that people can do with their families or people can do with their pets, like it’d be really cool to do in the, like on the streets.
00:07:30 Henry
What are your favorite spots in the neighborhood for the both of you? This could be an open space such as the open street or Diversity Plaza. This could be a restaurant, you know ’cause Jackson Heights is very well known for a lot of its food.
00:07:41 Kristi
Yes, so much food. Honestly, one of my favorite things about this neighborhood is food. It’s probably the most proud thing, like it’s, the thing I boast about most when it comes to our neighborhood is like you can’t get food like this anywhere else. Uh, where our favorite places?
00:07:57 Jason
Yeah, you can’t go wrong.
00:08:00 Kristi
I can’t, I can’t narrow it down. Like if I walked downstairs, Izakaya Fuku, they just opened up I’d say like within the past one or two years. They’re one of my favorite places. The guy, I don’t even know his name. But when he comes, he delivered our food once and we like know each other. He’s just like, “whoa, you live right here” and it’s just like crazy ’cause we have this connection with everyone that has like food in the area. Even like Mama’s Momos, the cart that’s like just around the street, Momo Crave, that’s like on I don’t know. There’s like so many places.
00:08:32 Jason
Yeah.
00:08:34 Kristi
Do you have anything in mind?
00:08:36 Jason
Uh, yeah, I mean I have a lot of favorite joints, but I think what is most fun for me here is like food discovery. I think elsewhere I’m so reliant on Yelp or Google reviews, just generally seeing what’s like trending online. But here I think for you know, like a myriad of reasons, it’s less about doing the research online and more about when you’re walking and just seeing where people are turning into and when people are walking out of a restaurant, what they’re carrying. And there’s so many smells and so many colors and it’s just, it’s fun to kind of find a new spot to try that way. It’s really fun ’cause most of the restaurants I, you know, I don’t know how to pronounce their name and that doesn’t matter. Which is really cool. I don’t have to know how to find them, I’m just walking. And you just, you just follow the people, just see what they’re enjoying and then give it a try too.
00:09:44 Henry
I would definitely say that word of mouth is pretty important when it comes to finding good spots in the neighborhood. At least in my experience and with us, some of my friends from the area.
00:09:55 Jason
Yeah, word of mouth. But what’s really fun about here is when there’s so many languages speaking. It’s sometimes it’s just a, just a, like following your hunch. It’s not a stranger on the street telling me where to go. I’m just walking and following my nose and eyes. I don’t know where else I can do that.
00:10:15 Kristi
Yeah, 100%.
00:10:20 Henry
What’s the biggest concern you have about the neighborhood?
00:10:24 Jason
Mmm…
00:10:28 Henry
You can take a moment to think, it’s fine.
00:10:33 Jason
I mean, you always; so I lived in Brooklyn for about 6 years and in a short amount of time, you know, you see neighborhoods like Bed Stuy, Williamsburg, Bushwick transform. For good and bad. On the one hand you bring in a lot of, what’s the right word for it? I mean, essentially it’s kind of just what happens when neighborhoods begin to get gentrified.
00:11:24 Jason
You love to see things pop up and grow. But you hate to see people being pushed out of their homes and that obviously is something that I would hate to see here. Especially because you know, I, we have family rooted here and it’s when you see someone being forced out when the high rise gets built. It’s not a stretch of the imagination to imagine if that was your family. So that’s always something that you’re wary about.
00:12:00 Henry
And what about you, Kristi?
00:12:02 Kristi
I’d say I had a similar answer in terms of gentrification. I think there’s a lot of charm that comes with visiting these little shops and little restaurants that are owned by local families that isn’t understood or received well by tourists or people that aren’t necessarily from the area. In the same way, like people that stick to Yelp and they’re just like religiously following the reviews. But if you look at some of the reviews on these restaurants, they’re not super great and I think they just don’t have an understanding of how this neighborhood works. Like the food is really great. It might not look like a crazy fancy restaurant, but you know that the food will be good and I think a lot of people don’t always receive that well. And the more and more people you get that are outside of this community, the more misunderstood these restaurants are. And it could be problematic when say, chains and other places are like replacing these restaurants that I love so much. So it’s a similar fear to Jason when it comes to like gentrification and parts of our neighborhood being misunderstood when you have like outsiders in the community. And I’m speaking as someone that did not grow up in Jackson Heights, like I’m someone that came from Florida. I’ve lived in New York, and even though I didn’t grow up here, I very much like resonate with the people that live here. So I think it’s important to also advocate for local families in this community, local restaurants; even if I’m not someone that was originally from Jackson Heights.
00:13:46 Henry
When you say outsiders, could you tell me a little bit more about what you mean? Like what do these people look like generally, what? What characteristics can define them?
00:13:55 Kristi
I mean.
00:13:57 Jason
Yeah, that feels loaded. I don’t think it’s about what, I don’t think it’s about what, I don’t think it’s about describing what an outsider is. I think that you get kind of into very problematic territory thinking like that. I think by outsider. I don’t even think maybe, maybe outsiders aren’t the right word. I think it’s you don’t want people coming here with disregard for what’s already here. You want people coming here who appreciate what’s here and want to be a part of it. That’s a very different thing from someone seeing an opportunity to come here and change something. That, you know what I mean? Like that that I think is the difference between change and growth. Like growth is allowing a community and neighborhood to continue to prosper and build and allow it to be built by the people living in it, for the people living in it. And it’s no issue if other people come in and enjoy that. It’s a very different thing when someone doesn’t understand the environment that they’re entering and they come and they force change. I guess that is the kind of person that you want to be wary about.
00:15:22 Henry
Yeah, that’s very fair, thank you for explaining that. So since you bring up, I guess these two definitions of how or what an outsider may or may not be, which do you think people coming into the neighborhood in recent years have been leaning towards? Do you think they’ve been coming in here with good intentions, wanting to see the neighborhood thrive, or maybe them pushing their own agenda?
00:15:50 Jason
I mean, I think when you see people coming here, it’s because they see the beauty of the neighborhood. Like there’s many reasons why a neighborhood like Jackson Heights would attract people. When I’m talking about, like a weird like, when I’m talking about like an agent of change, I’m talking about like, you know around 82nd St? It’s like a huge Latino American like community. Why did a Chipotle open up? Like what does the Chipotle add like? That’s kind of weird to me, but I guess I don’t know. Maybe people like really love Chipotle there. I don’t know.
00:16:35 Henry
Kris, do you have any thoughts on Calle Colombia, 82nd St?
00:16:41 Kristi
I think, I feel so, I mean again, I feel similarly to Jason, how. And obviously a problem like gentrification isn’t something that can be explained as like these people from the outside are simply coming in. Like there’s a lot more complex things happening. ‘Cause honestly, if you look at the base of it, I’m a gentrifier because I’m someone that was not in this neighborhood. I’m young, I came in like and I’m like living in this space that could potentially be lived in from someone that is within the community. So I think there has to be an understanding of like what you’re doing with the time and space that you are taking up whenever you’re in this neighborhood. Are you someone that is actively supporting your local businesses? Are you someone that is like fighting for the rights of your neighbors? Like those are all things that I think are important when you’re someone that is coming in from the outside. Because like when you’re asking like well, “what does an outsider look like” and I’m telling you, in many ways I am also an outsider. So it is very meaningful that I say, I look at Jackson Heights and I think of it as my home and like the people here, welcome me and it feels like I’m at home whenever I’m here. But I didn’t forget that I’m also an outsider and I think there’s a lot of people that don’t even think about that. They don’t even think about the space that they’re taking up, how they could have potentially replaced someone else, or had they could have been the reason why someone else was pushed out of their home. And that’s a lot of the reason what that gentrification like is so rampant, and it’s just not on the minds of some people, and it should be. So I think there’s just a big difference in understanding the space that you take up as an outsider, and also like what change can you make as someone that’s living in this neighborhood.
00:18:38 Henry
Jackson Heights has been changing in some ways for the better and in some ways for the worst. I, I think that’s a statement that all three of us kind of agree on, right?
00:18:46 Jason
Sure.
00:18:47 Henry
What are some of the forces, in your opinion, that are driving the change we’re seeing in Jackson Heights?
00:18:54 Jason
For one it’s kind of the, feel maybe, it’s just. I mean I’m not even that old, but I’ve already seen it happen over and over to a few neighborhoods. This, the cycle of people continuing to come to New York because, you know, it’s a magnet city. It attracts a lot of people and those people trying to find room for themselves. Trying to find a place to be. And for a while it was, you know, Manhattan, Harlem, Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Bushwick and it kind of feels like it’s happening in Queens right now. And Astoria, it’s been happening in Long Island City and it’s happening in Jackson Heights and elsewhere in Queens.
00:19:53 Kristi
I’d say a lot of it is systemic. There’s just a lot of questions that I have where it’s like, are the people in our community protected? We’re just in a pandemic. Can I confidently say everyone in our local government did what they could to advocate for the people? Did people have like breaks in their rent, were they expected to pay for their rent? Like what were the protections that they had? Not even during the pandemic, but like even on any other given day like, and that’s what I’m wondering is, are people being prioritized based on whether or not they can pay rent? Or are they, like are people that are actually in our community being advocated for. Because I do think it’s problematic in some ways, how I’m not sure if there is legislation or anything that said that you didn’t have to pay rent during a pandemic, especially with unemployment rates. We have a community that is comprised mostly of people of color and people of color were the most, were the ones that comprise most of the unemployment during the pandemic. And did we see anything come to fruition to combat that or to counteract that? I can’t confidently say that I did see things. Uhm I saw, I mean and me as someone that had, was like unemployed because of the pandemic. Like did I see any local assistance or anything available? I’m not confident that I could say that. And if I didn’t find anything like, I’m wondering about the families that maybe they’re undocumented in our neighborhood. How are they getting resources that are protecting them? And I think that just, that’s not even like all of it. Like that’s, like you know what people are going through in the pandemic, but it’s just like even outside of that.
00:22:08 Kristi
How are people getting the help in our community outside of the pandemic? Even during like any other day, how are we prioritizing people that live in this neighborhood? I’m just wondering about a lot of those things. Even the homeless population. How are they being cared for? So I think when it comes down to like, what are the contributing factors to gentrification? There’s obviously so many and it it’s like so systemic that everything is like interwoven into one another, but it just makes me ask questions like what is our government doing, like to answer those questions? Are they part of the problem whenever it comes to like contributing to gentrification, or are they actively trying to prevent that? And I don’t really know the answers to those questions.
00:23:00 Henry
Yeah, that’s very fair. Since you bring up the pandemic, COVID-19 has definitely, severely impacted Jackson Heights and surrounding neighborhoods, which includes Corona, East Elmhurst and Elmhurst itself. I remember my time during the start of lockdown; at the time of recording that would have been exactly a year ago actually. I remember things being really horrible here in the neighborhood and I have my own thoughts about, I have my own thoughts about what that means and what those impacts are. But could I get your takes on how COVID-19 has impacted the area?
00:23:50 Jason
I mean I was, Elmhurst was for the worst reason imaginable, the center of the world during the first few months of the COVID outbreak here. Obviously, you see that ripple through every community in Queens. Not to mention you know the other boroughs and especially communities of, where it’s a lot of people of color who; I think it was just a scary time. When you have so many people, how do you keep everyone informed? Like where is this information coming from? Is it the right information? There was just so much noise and fear and it was just a very scary time. Yeah, I mean me and Kris, remember you know taking, I mean we, we have our dog Atlas. So we have to walk every day of course, and I remember during that time like there were points where you saw the neighborhood looked like it was a scene from the end of the world. And that was pretty scary. It, it, there’s times like that where like, things feel, I don’t want to say hopeless. But they just felt scary and like a recovery at that time felt so far and hard to imagine. So it’s nice to see the community begin to bounce back.
00:25:52 Kristi
I would say during the pandemic, obviously everyone in this country, in this world has like, experienced this pandemic in a different way. But one thing that has been consistent is the pandemic has highlighted very systemic and deep-rooted problems that are within our country, on a like microcosm scale within our own lives. So obviously problems within the school system, problems within the government, problems with race all have been exacerbated because of the pandemic, and the pandemic is just bringing all these things to light and it makes it even worse. Like our understanding of schools and everything like that, I mean not even our understanding of schools, but the way schools are run. The way that we’re handling, treating people of color when it comes to medical care, all of these things have been like very much highlighted and Jackson Heights is no exception to that.
00:27:00 Kristi
I’d say the beautiful thing about Jackson Heights is, you know, we had to stay inside for a period of time. But I did feel like still connected to this neighborhood. That was the most takeout I’ve ever had in my life, and it was probably like great that I could rely, and it’s like, I mean, not great that they had to stay open during a pandemic, but like me trying to very much support these places that I really love eating at. And these businesses trying to stay open during the pandemic. It’s like, we’re kind of in this together and that was very uplifting to me because we also own a small business as well. So I think staying connected with the people within this neighborhood was very beautiful to me, but it’s like not a surprise to anyone that this pandemic has been really difficult, especially for people within Jackson Heights.
00:27:58 Henry
As painful as lockdown really was, we really were the epicenter within the epicenter, right?
00:28:05 Jason
Yeah.
00:28:05 Kristi
Yeah.
00:28:06 Henry
As painful as that experience was for me and a lot of my fellow neighbors, the weird thing looking back is I wouldn’t have wanted to be anywhere else in the world during that time.
00:28:16 Kristi
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree.
00:28:20 Jason
Yeah.
00:28:23 Henry
Because we went through it together and I, I think there’s just so much to be proud of if you’re from here and if you love this neighborhood even during such horrible, horrible times.
00:28:35 Jason
Yeah, I mean for sure I think, I think what’s really reflective of the amount of homegrown support that’s in Jackson Heights, is that so, I mean not every small business survived, but so many did, which is beautiful to see. I regularly have to go back into the city for work. And every time I go, there’s another you know coffee shop or restaurant that I used to get food or drink from everyday, gone. Because for one reason or another, they couldn’t make it. And, when you think of a business, a small business as someone’s livelihood, supporting a community’s needs, it’s very, very, very empowering and inspiring. To see all these businesses bounce back and still be there.
00:29:59 Henry
Yeah and Kristi, you brought up how the pandemic has really exacerbated and really made obvious, if it wasn’t already before, systemic issues, one of many being racial issues. I’m not sure if you two are aware, but are you two knowledgeable about this, this neighborhood’s history with racial residential segregation?
00:30:24 Jason
No.
00:30:27 Kristi
Uhm, no.
00:30:28 Henry
Would you want me to explain a bit for you two?
00:30:31 Jason
Sure, yeah.
00:30:33 Henry
So Jackson Heights was a WASP-, and by WASP I mean white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, restricted neighborhood for much of its early years.
00:30:46 Jason
When, like when are we talking?
00:30:49 Henry
The neighborhood was developed in the early 1900s by the Queensboro Corporation, mainly. You can still see relics of the Queensboro Corporation’s corporate identity. Like there’s the Starbucks on 37th Ave that’s located in a building with the Queensboro Corporation’s name emblazoned on top of one of its doors actually. So the neighborhood was restricted for many decades. It was only until if, if I’m not mistaken, around the 60s that things started to change. ‘Cause before they didn’t even let Jewish people live here, you know? I mean, like white, ethnically Ashkenazi, European descended Jewish people. But of course, now the neighborhood is vastly different from that.
00:31:37 Jason
Right?
00:31:38 Henry
Yeah, so seeing that you two were not exactly aware of this neighborhood’s history, how do you feel about that?
00:31:47 Jason
I don’t care to be honest, I think. The last, I think if you look at American history, if you look at every decade of the 20th century, you see insane amounts of change. And that’s especially accelerated in the last 50/60 years when it comes to human rights, especially when it comes to the rights of other, of immigrants, people of color, genders. So I don’t feel differently about Jackson Heights today knowing that ugly history from 60/70 years ago. It doesn’t surprise me because I think that level of racism is extremely prevalent in American history. But it doesn’t affect my opinion of Jackson Heights today.
00:33:04 Henry
Kristi? Yeah, sorry.
00:33:06 Jason
And yeah, oh, and I was going to say and I think in an amazing knockout punch, middle finger to that history, Jackson Heights is the most diverse community in the entire world. So, suck it racists.
00:33:24 Henry
Kristi, how about you?
00:33:26 Kristi
I’d say I feel even more protective of our community after knowing its roots. Like having to fight through that kind of oppression and restriction to even get into this neighborhood, and you didn’t really give details on how this neighborhood pretty much transitioned to a neighborhood that primarily houses such a like, wide variety of culture. But knowing that they somehow got to this point from there, I’d say I feel really proud and even more protective of this community, and I just very desperately would just want to make sure it stays this way. It stays this diverse. Because it became this way for a reason, and people obviously fought to have this neighborhood look the way that it does now, so. Yeah, I’m very proud and I want to make sure I want to do what I can to keep it as diverse as it is.
00:34:34 Henry
I definitely agree with those sentiments. For those of you watching at home, I am Chinese American; so is my brother Jason. And Kristi before explained that she is Filipina, right?
00:34:35 Kristi
Mm-hmm.
00:34:47 Henry
So all three of us are Asian people, and Asians definitely make up a large proportion of Jackson Heights’ demographics. I would say, especially South Asians. But one group of people, even though Jackson Heights is very, very diverse in the year 2021, one specific group of people has generally not been able to be as seen or as a part of it as the rest of us are. And that would be Black people. And by Black people I don’t just mean specifically Black Americans, I mean people from throughout the African diaspora. Like neighboring Corona and East Elmhurst can be described as historically Black neighborhoods. I live closer to,
00:35:35 Jason
Is that? I didn’t know that.
00:35:36 Henry
Yeah, they are. I live, well you used to too Jason when you lived with, you know, my household, but I live closer to that part of the neighborhood and,
00:35:48 Jason
So did the Black community get pushed outwards? Towards, like they used to be, huh. I didn’t know that.
00:35:59 Henry
Yeah, I’m sorry I kind of lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, I was saying so yeah. Black people have not exactly been able to be a part of this diversity to the same extent that other minority groups such as Asians, such as non-Black Latinos, have been able to enjoy in Jackson Heights. So considering the neighborhood’s history of racial segregation, and considering how there is still a relatively minute Black presence in Jackson Heights today, even in the year 2021, how does that make you feel? What are your thoughts on that?
00:36:53 Jason
I mean, that’s definitely valid and that is quite a bummer. Hmm. When was this?
00:37:10 Henry
Well, you know, Malcolm X and a lot of very notable Black figures in history have called Corona and East Elmhurst home.
00:37:22 Jason
I did not know that.
00:37:23 Henry
Malcolm X used to live here.
00:37:25 Jason
What?
00:37:26 Henry
Yeah.
00:37:28 Jason
I did not know that at all.
00:37:32 Kristi
I’d say whenever there aren’t Black people present, what are we doing as a community to make them feel welcome? And if they don’t feel welcome, what are we doing as a community to make them feel ostracized or feel like they don’t belong? And those are always ways that I like, can quickly figure out whether or not what the reason is for why Black people aren’t necessarily as integrated into this community. I obviously don’t know a lot of the history. I don’t know a lot of the answers or what the deeper issues are going on there, but that’s always my instinct. Whenever I see a lack of diversity is, what are we doing to make Black people feel welcome? Especially if we know that there was a time where Malcolm X called Corona home. What changed? Like, what could we have done to make this space more open for Black people? What are the medical care rates? Are we as equitable in our schooling? In our care, in our job opportunities to black people in this neighborhood. And again,
00:38:50 Kristi
Like thinking on a much larger scale, this is obviously a problem that’s happening nationwide and it’s like being replicated within Jackson Heights as well. But I think Jackson Heights can kind of I mean, I speak of Jackson Heights as if it’s some like omniscient being, but also like everyone in the community. What are they doing to make Black people feel welcome? That’s, those are just like the questions that I have, and that’s always the question that I ask if I’m looking and wondering why things aren’t as diverse and those should be the questions we have because I want places to be more diverse. I want places to be more welcoming for all races, and I think it’s a red flag if there’s like not as much diversity, if that makes sense.
00:39:44 Jason
Yeah, I mean. I would say that him being from or having lived in Queens should be a proud part of the history of the community and it’s kind of a shame that it’s not more well known. Because I think if it was more well known, that would also kind of, that kind of informs other people what to expect from a neighborhood or, or you know, to kind of like. It’s obviously more welcoming to people when you know that you have like a cultural investment in a neighborhood that you, that you’re welcome there. So I think that it kind of is really disappointing that such a large, important figure you know, has footprints here, and that’s not more well known and that makes me wonder, why is that not well known? Is it kind of like washed away for bad reasons? You know, like why? I would, yeah, that just kind of makes me want to reflect and dig a bit more. For sure, I agree with everything Christie said.
00:41:09 Henry
You know we can, we can even see that in the implementation of the open street. The 34th Ave open street is strictly within the borders of Jackson Heights, meaning from the Brooklyn Queens Expressway in the western end of the neighborhood and Junction Blvd on the eastern part of the neighborhood. But once you go into the political borders of Corona, or what could be more technically called North Corona, which again like I said before, is where there is a larger black population, the open street ends.
00:41:41 Jason
Interesting, are they run by two separate community boards?
00:41:47 Henry
No, all of Jackson Heights, or at least to my knowledge, all of Jackson Heights, East Elmhurst and North Corona is a part of Queens Community Board 3.
00:41:57 Jason
Ah, so you’re saying the designations for where it opens and ends is intentional?
00:42:06 Henry
I don’t know honestly. I think it could be a number of factors and a racial factor could be an unspoken one. I also think that the community support to be able to operate the open street, ’cause as it currently stands it’s a very volunteer led coalition,
00:42:23 Jason
Right?
00:42:24 Henry
And also there are, to my knowledge, more driveways and private garages along 34th Ave past Junction Blvd going into North Corona. So that could be an inhibiting factor of greater pedestrianization. But these are, these are just some of the factors. It’s not definitive in my opinion, or to my knowledge.
00:42:49 Jason
Yeah I would, I mean that definitely makes me second guess, but,
00:43:01 Henry
What does it make you second guess?
00:43:04 Jason
Makes me second guess the intentions, but I don’t know.
00:43:12 Henry
It’s fine not to know.
00:43:12 Kristi
I mean, I’d say. Everything is, and this is me like being cynical ’cause I’m very cynical in that way, like all these decisions are 100% intentional. Like these things aren’t accidents where the further along you go, there’s less trees that you see.
00:43:34 Jason
Right.
00:43:35 Kristi
I’d like to see numbers on the racial breakdown for some of these neighborhoods, or some of these streets and how some of those streets have a lot more trees. Some of the streets have a lot, are a lot cleaner, and I’m wondering why. It’s not, these things don’t happen by accident and that’s why I keep bringing up these systemic problems because they’re prevalent in the decisions that are made, whether it’s implicit or explicit. A lot of the, a lot of the government decisions and a lot of things that happen politically are based in a racist system, and that’s why it’s working the way it is. I mean, even if you think about the way schools are funded, it’s this, it’s working within a system that perpetuates people of color having difficulty transitioning from one class to another class. Like, all of these things are not an accident. They were leftovers from a racially systemic government and there hasn’t been enough intention to change these things or even uproot these things.
00:44:57 Kristi
So when you say that open street stops right when it gets to Corona, that’s not an accident. They didn’t like, those are not things that just, “maybe we’ll just arbitrarily stop here”. There’s always a reason for everything, and most of the time it’s based in systemic racism and everyone needs to be fighting that and everyone needs to be mindful of that. That a lot of these decisions are happening, are not accidents and the people that are paying for them are people of color most of the time. Or people that don’t have money or people that are struggling or people that are undocumented. Those are the people that are paying for it the most and we need to be mindful of that. We need to be fighting that.
00:45:42 Jason
I think that is super right on. I want to say I think my, my initial gut, or my natural instinct. First, I don’t think you’re cynical. I think you’re just more realistic. I think there’s a part of me that wants to find a better reason for why these decisions are being made then assuming the worst reason. But I do believe that it’s not about what we don’t know. It’s not about like, like Henry you said there’s a ton of reasons. There’s probably a lot that goes into these decisions. But I do fully admit that I think it is a very naïve viewpoint to ignore the elephant in the room and try to justify why decisions like this are being made and trying to look past the big racial component and trying to find other reasons. I think that is a instinct that I have, to try to find the better in people and assume that there’s more reasons. But I think Kristi is right and I do believe that just considering what we know, considering the political social climate, considering what like the ugly unmasking, the last four years in this country. I think it’s totally justified to kind of assume that this ugly reason is probably, like you said, an invisible, but major reason probably. But either way I think you’re right. I just think you’re right about questions need to be asked in that regard and people deserving answers ’cause that is, that is really, really disappointing.
00:48:08 Henry
Sorry,
00:48:10 Jason
No, yeah.
00:48:11 Henry
To add on a bit more about some context surrounding the open street and where it ends or where it begins, Queens Community Board 3 is comprised of Jackson Heights, East Elmhurst and North Corona. And if I’m not mistaken, the woman who is, I forget what the top position in Community Boards are called. But the woman in the top position at the moment is actually a Black woman, right?
00:48:44 Jason
Okay.
00:48:46 Henry
And there’s also, there’s not a perfect representational borders when it comes to City Council districts, State Senate districts, State Assembly districts, federal Congressional districts that neatly encompasses what the actual borders are of Jackson Heights, which would be comprised of: Roosevelt Ave on the south, Junction Blvd to the east, the Brooklyn Queens Expressway to the west, and Northern Blvd, or perhaps the Grand Central Parkway to the North, depending on who you ask. So I don’t think it’s unfair to admit that there are a bunch of factors at play.
00:49:30 Jason
There’s probably a bunch of factors.
00:49:30 Henry
But it, but it’s about which ones are the unspoken ones.
00:49:37 Jason
Yeah, no.
00:49:37 Henry
’cause those ones are probably, those ones are probably the most important to discuss.
00:49:42 Jason
No, I think it’s, it’s not even about weighing which factor influences the decision the most. Like you said, there will always be a ton of factors that go into every decision. I just think it’s absolutely right to kind of, know, and admit that like you said, there are racially invested, invisible, quote unquote, factors. Big or small, they’re factors, and that’s a shame.
00:50:23 Henry
Yes, we don’t want those other would be factors to be used as excuses to diminish the racial factor I, I think yeah.
00:50:31 Jason
I mean, you want a world where that doesn’t matter yet, and it, it’s I don’t know. I catch myself because I know that I have a tendency to be one of those naive people that want to pretend that we’re in a completely post racial world, or that like it’s always flowers and grass and smiles. But I just think you guys are both right. I mean it’s, there’s probably something there, and that’s disappointing. And it’s and I guess like what I’m wondering now, is not necessarily why it was done. But like Kristi was saying, what can we do? Like the decision was made, that’s how it is now. But what can people do to, you know, lengthen that stretch in the next few years? Like what can you do to increase the greenery and the trees? Because you know like seeing more trees that makes people happy. That’s not a small thing. Planting more trees, like keeping the streets clean that all, that does a lot for a community. Like is that being done more in Jackson Heights than in northern Corona? If so, why?
00:52:08 Henry
It says a lot about who gets those services and who doesn’t.
00:52:12 Jason
Right, absolutely.
00:52:15 Kristi
Yeah, and I guess I’d wanna, and I’ve been very intentional with saying it’s very much like a systemic problem. So that means it’s not one individual that can make these decisions, that is the sole person responsible for gentrification and open streets. So even though the person on the Council who is Black,
00:52:45 Henry
Oh excuse me, it’s Queens Community Board 3.
00:52:47 Kristi
Queens Community Board 3 is Black, this person might be doing everything in their power to like change things. But operating, you’re still operating within a systemically racist system because the government was created based on systemic racism, which is not necessarily possible to fight. So the thing that you need to do is just like, continue to be mindful of that; that person can be doing everything in their power. But again, I’m not saying that person is the person responsible for all of this, because it’s a systemic problem that needs to be like uprooted from the very foundation. Which is like, again, not one person’s responsibility but more a collective responsibility and understanding. It’s very much like everyone’s responsibility to change and fight systemic racism, and not one person.
00:53:51 Henry
Yeah, and the last thing I wanted to ask the both of you is: In 15 years, how would you want Jackson Heights to be like? How do you envision the neighborhood within that time frame?
00:54:07 Jason
I mean, I think ideally, I want it to, I want it to feel the same. I think that would be most important to me. You know things like come and go. But like a community is shaped by the people that have been here and invest in it and put their time and effort into it. And, that’s what contributes to the feeling of a neighborhood, and I would just want it to feel the same. I would want, as Kristi said to feel the same comfort walking around the neighborhood. Seeing other people, people of all races speaking all these different languages, I don’t want that to change. I would love to be able to continue to not read the name of every business that was here. I don’t know if that’s asking for a lot. But I guess I wouldn’t want a lot of change. Growth is fine, let these businesses continue to succeed and prosper, you know. Let them continue to feed the neighborhood. Growth is totally fine, but I hope that it feels the same.
00:55:50 Henry
And Kristi?
00:55:52 Kristi
I’d say, uhm. I share a lot of sentiment with what Jason said. Mostly, it would be nice for it to get even more diverse for the restaurants and the businesses I love to grow and prosper even more aggressively. And I’d also, I want to say, I just demand more for our local community. I want schools to be better. I want undocumented, undocumented immigrants to feel safer in our neighborhood. I just want our neighborhood to feel safe for people that live in this neighborhood, live in this community. If there is anyone that’s coming in, that’s similar to me, that is an outsider, I’d want them to be championing for the rights of people that are within this community, that have been here for a long time, and those are the kind of people that I want here. If there’s people that aren’t like that, that are here for selfish reasons, I don’t want those people in this neighborhood. There’s a lot to fight for. There’s a lot of change that needs to happen for Jackson Heights in a good way, and I feel like that only happens when you have the right people championing for these causes and even the community is fighting for itself to you. So I just want to keep seeing that.
00:57:22 Henry
Kristi, Jason, thank you so much for your time.
00:57:25 Jason
Oh yeah.
00:57:25 Kristi
Thank you.
00:57:27 Jason
Thank you.
