Like William and ToniAnn, I found immigrants discriminating against other immigrants to be both infuriating and ironic.  All immigrants arrived in America searching for something, whether it was jobs or freedom or relief from the accursed potato blight.  For immigrants, America represented the light of the end of the journey–for them New York City was a beacon of hope.  Maybe this explains why most Irish immigrants who were originally sent to Canada preferred to move to the City.

In many cases, what we perceive something to be, or what we want something to be is actually more important than what the something actually is.  Immigrants, past and present, wanted New York City to hold for them a better life.  There’s no doubt that they would have heard of the conditions of the City from relatives already living there, but I think that they needed to believe that New York City would provide a better life for them in order to survive the ordeals of that they were going through at that time and the sufferings on the journey here.

Although charts and statistics do clearly show how many immigrants actually made it all the way to America and how many lost their lives on their way here, it is impossible to imagine the conditions each person went through in order to reach their destination. Reading first person accounts on the journey old immigrants had to take to arrive to America was extremely terrifying and saddening- crowded, tightly packed, unhealthy, dirty etc. These immigrants went through  such horrible conditions only to encounter with more and in some cases even worse conditions once they had reached here. On the other hand, immigrants that travel to America now have it easier with comfortable seats on the place.

However, the reasons why the old and new immigrants took upon such a journey to America can be seen as both similar and different. Similar because they were looking for better economic conditions through which they could either help their family back home or just survive on a day-to-day basis. Even though, the immigrants that travel to America now might be more professional and skilled than the ones that arrived earlier, both groups were in need of economic stability and better living conditions. Different because the old immigrants actually had no other choice and had to leave their country in order to survive. For example, the Irish came because of the potato famine which left them no other choice but to leave; and for the other immigrant groups, the Chinese and the Italians, due to living in extreme poverty. New immigrants do not have to leave because they do not have a choice, but because they want to live better off than they are in their home country or at least they believe so.Whether it be old immigrants or new immigrants their main reason to come to America was because they wanted to start a new life and for them America was the place to be, as William said “yearning for a better income, life and opportunity.

All in all, it was very sad, even disturbing to some extent, to read about the difficulties and hardships many faced in hopes of acquiring better conditions in America, whether or not they actually received them.

Like many of my classmates, I was struck by the downright chasmal difference between the respective experiences of the “old” and “new” immigrants.  Sure, many modern immigrants face more than their fair share of hardship, and by no means am I belittling the sorts of xenophobic prejudices and economic difficulties that often plague the so-called “new” immigrants. There is certainly still more than enough strife and suffering to go around, but when it comes down to it, modern immigrants seem to have gotten a much better deal than their “old immigrant” predecessors.

After all most modern immigrants are not fleeing certain starvation or sold into childhood slavery, which I suppose begs the question of why they would come to America in the first place.  Relocating is sort of a no-brainer when the alternative is death-by-potato-blight, but what convinces the skilled and highly-educated foreigners that Foner wrote about to trade their well-established lives for the generally grim occupational prospects of illegality? It’s a pretty puzzling question, and one that I don’t really have a satisfying answer to.  We are so used to thinking of America as the land of opportunity, but I honestly don’t see where opportunity fits in with trading surgeon’s scrubs for a janitorial jumpsuit. Then again, I guess that’s precisely the sort of question we’re trying to answer with this class…

It was really interesting to read these about the different waves of immigration that came in over the years. The Italians, Chinese, Irish, etc all came to America and particularly New York because they were escaping the hardships they were facing in their respective countries. However when they got here, things weren’t perfect either. It just makes me think about how blessed we are to live in such a time where we have the convenience of every single thing. Everything we need is basically handed to us or we can have it by the click of a mouse. Nevertheless, the hardships that new immigrants went through are sometimes looked over but they are definitely significant.

In chapter 2 of Anbinder’s book she talks about how a lot of Five Pointer’s usually came with another family member. However parents would sometimes have to leave their children or other loved relatives back in their country for a period of time. As I read this I was thinking that history really does repeat itself. It might not be Italians, or the Irish immigrating to New York as much today, but I know a lot of South Asian families immigrating here and leaving their families behind just as the former did. The years have gone by and now other groups of immigrants are coming to this country. The same process happens over and over again. The mentality is the same for these people: to make money so that their family back home can benefit and even come to America for a better living. A lot of families I know today have half their families living in New York while the other half is in their native countries, waiting to be sponsored. It’s interesting to see the extent to which people go to just to come to New York City. Although, I’ve asked many new immigrants if they like New York better than their countries and at first they dearly miss their homeland but after a while (a few years) they start to forget their roots and become engulfed in the race for money and power.

Going back to Anbinder, I found it interesting to read about the Italian and Chinese immigrants. Like many of my fellow peers, I find that many former immigrants or 2^nd generations were being hypocritical by denouncing immigrants from countries like Italy or China. Their families had a chance to settle and now they should let other people have the same opportunity. However, when does this “chance for equal freedom” stop? When do we start to limit the amount/types of people coming into this country or state? These questions are still being challenged and discussed in our everyday lives.

One interesting contrast I found between the Italians and Chinese immigrants was who they were bringing along with them. The Italians were mostly bringing their families along with them and in fact their families were also working with the men of the household. The role of women became crucial at this point as Italian and Irish women competed for the same types of jobs. On the other hand, Chinese men were primarily immigrating to New York. They were mostly single and actually found Italian and Irish spouses. It interesting to note the difference of (possibly) culture and family upbringing between these two groups. The young Chinese generation was more independent while a lot of Italians were coming over with families.

I agree with ToniAnn on how amazing it is that waves of immigration keep coming in even today. It will be interesting to see how, in a matter of years, the various cultures will allow America to be more diverse than it seems to be at the moment.

I can’t agree with Rebecca more about how it’s the stories and the narratives that really speak to you as opposed to the charts and numerical statistics. Statistics are good for relaying information but in order to get the feeling and emotion of the situations these immigrants faced, it’s important to look into the first person accounts of the problems they faced at home and in America. After reading all of the accounts the only conclusion I came to about these immigrants, old and new is they had it bad all over. The old immigrants escaped hardships at home to find a land that had been hyped up to be a place where all can “breathe free”, only to face a different set of problems. Also many of the new immigrants thought they could find more opportunities and better lifestyles in America and left prestigious careers at home, only to face struggle and need to get cab driving or labor jobs. While there were some who were able to make it big in America, more often than not immigrants, old and new, left their homes to live in a place that was just as bad. While the physical journey to America might have been easier for newer immigrants, there’s no doubt that both groups faced hardships wherever they wound up.

Like many other people who posted, I also find it interesting how the immigrant factions who were already settled into New York felt they had the right to oppress and antagonize the newer waves of immigrants. While it shows that these people who settled were developing a sense of national pride and unity, it is a terrible way to go about it. As unfortunate as this is I agree with Eden that this is not a problem that is going away anytime soon. There will always be people in each community who find a reason to spread negative ideas about others. It’s interesting to think about how a place like the old Five Points area, where the borders between each ethnic community were pretty clearly defined, has become an area that predominately contains one ethnic group.

In many ways there was similar animosity back in the time of the old immigrants to that which exists today with new immigrants. The idea that immigrants will take economic opportunities from those who have established themselves in an area is just as prevalent now as it was back then. The difference now is that many immigrants are well educated which is even more threatening to “natives”. Back in the 1800’s the Irish, who are considered one of the oldest immigrant group, were afraid that the waves of italian, German and Chinese Immigrants would take the jobs form them.

The old and new immigrants, while facing different specific situations, overall face similar problems. It’s odd that America is this shining example of freedom, opportunity, etc. meanwhile these immigrants are subjected to hardships that rival what forced them out of their home countries to begin with.

Every passing day, I realize how much we take advantage of the things in our lives – whether they be living or material. It’s true how we suddenly value something when it’s gone; most of us have grown up in America, spoiled by its overwhelming opportunities and ethnic variety. After encountering the readings by Nancy Foner and Tyler Anbinder, I’m now awakened to the fact that others in foreign lands would literally put their lives of the line for what I’ve been born into. It’s safe to say that I value my life now more than ever.

Like what William noted, what bothered me most about the readings (Anbinder, in particular) was how early immigrants were assigned to labor that no one else was willing to do. Yes, perhaps these hardships were – in retrospect – less severe than what was experienced in their homelands. Yes, this kind of work was willingly done in order to begin life anew. But, when examining my own life and opportunities, was their past treatment truly just? I suppose that life for immigrants in America has improved, since technology and communication have matured. Foner states that our land is now attractive to those of contrasting classes and educational levels, as well as cultures and religions; that must say something about how we as a country have improved our offerings.

ToniAnn pointed out how immigrants of contrasting origins, although alike in aspiration, displayed animosity towards each other. This does not completely surprise me. Foner repeatedly mentioned the reasons immigrants had for coming to the United States: “America holds out the promise of political and cultural freedom – and material abundance” (26). Furthermore, she elaborated on this fact by stating that once settled, these arrivals strove “to earn higher wages and maintain a better standard of living” (27). These thousands millions of newcomers were all competing for the same desires. With such pressure for limited success, it’s no wonder why resentment would arise (i.e., the Irish against the Italians) in the dog-eat-dog world we call America. Collaboration with others besides those within their own cultural ties just seemed to be unreasonable.

In response to Toni-Ann’s remark about immigrants treating other immigrant groups with a tendency to look down upon them I say: “well of course.”  If an immigrant is coming to this country for a better life, than other immigrants can be seen as a potential opponent in the quest for the grand American life.  When one immigrant group “picked on” another group, it came from the idea that more people meant more competition.  In addition, one can say that certain immigrant groups were probably not used to seeing so many people from other countries.  So because (as described in posts from two weeks ago) America is this giant melting pot/salad bowl all nationalities could be represented and still coexist in one place.  Immigrants identified with their own kind because it was another reminder of their roots and offered the opportunity to feel at home in an unfamiliar place with people just like them.

The trip that “old” immigrants took to Ellis Island was one of hope and hardship.  The passage in a ship filled to the brim with tired, dirty people all wanting the same thing-to reach land and find a new life-is only one step above the slave’s passage to America.  When the slaves were brought to this country it was to be bought and sold as laborers; whereas immigrants suffered the difficult trip with a vision of a better life.  After having read about the Irish prior to their migration to America, it’s easier to understand why they would undergo such a trip; when your choices are try to survive a famine or try to survive a voyage across the ocean, the ocean wins out because at least there’s a hope of what is to come if they made it.  However this hope for a better life is one that was exploited heavily, and it’s a shame that immigrants were and still are only seen as new laborers for the work that others (including other immigrants) didn’t want to do.

Foner’s chapter contrasting old and new immigrants was really interesting.  The way she describes the old immigrants (poor and wretched) are the way I imagined most immigrants today.  I didn’t realize that today most immigrants are from professional and middle class.  Foner was right when she said that just because the immigrants come from poor and uneducated nations, it doesn’t mean they themselves are poor and uneducated.

I didn’t realize it but most immigrants have college degrees and skillful expertise.  But if a lot of them have these college degrees, then why do they take unskilled jobs like working in factories, taxi driver, supermarkets, etc.?  Is it because they don’t speak the language? Or are they illegal immigrants and don’t have papers?

This chapter taught me a LOT about illegal immigrants.  I honestly had no idea that most illegal immigrants were actually more educated/skilled than the legal immigrants!  If they were really so much better than the legal immigrants, then why don’t we just let them in legally?  Or if it’s because there’s no room, then we should let them in instead of the uneducated legal immigrants.

I never realized how easy it was and how many ways there are to sneak into the country.  I naively thought illegal immigrants snuck over the border, or as stowaways on ships.  I didn’t know that the most common way was to get a temporary visa and never go back when it expired.  Or that you could forge papers or take someone else’s passport.

It’s crazy how much things changed regarding the trip over to America.  The journey immigrants went through back then was so dangerous and so long.  Many people didn’t make it and died before America- they came under such inhumane conditions!  Now it is so easy- you get on a nice, comfortable plane in your normal clothes, and make it to America within a few hours, and under humane conditions, too.

Foner mentioned that sometimes families would separate and come in “chain migration”- one half came first and sent for the other.  But when Ainbinder described the types of separation, I was shocked.  I can’t imagine a mother leaving her four year old son alone in her home country.  Who took care of the child?  What if they weren’t reunited?

I liked reading about the Irish potato blight from the immigrant’s standpoint of how it affected them.  Reading about the immigrants’ personal stories was much more meaningful than looking at charts with numbers.  I learned about the potato blight before, but it never seemed like such a big deal.  Reading about how dependent the Irish were on potatoes was crazy.  I can’t imagine eating 14 pounds of potatoes a day, and eating nothing but potatoes.  How did they manage to be day laborers and do all that work eating nothing but potatoes?  Reading about the starvation and disease was awful.

I felt so bad for the little Italian children who were sold to play music on the street.  I hate the padroni!  How could they abuse the small Italian children?  And are those the same padroni that helped immigrants get work, but basically took all their money while visiting the immigrants at work and threatening them with guns?  I really don’t like them.

In both readings the authors, Foner and Anbinder share the horrifying personal experiences of immigrants from Italy and China. In “From Ellis Island to JFK,” Foner relays their descriptions of their journeys taken to come to the United States. One journalist posing as an immigrant from Naples in 1906 wrote: “How can a steerage passenger remember that he is a human being when he must first pick the worms his food…and eat in his stuffy, stinking bunk, or in the hot and fetid atmosphere of a compartment where 150 men sleep, or in juxtaposition to a seasick man.”

While reading the dense statistics, brief narratives such as the one above are what really stood out to me in the readings. Looking at charts and percentages, it is easy to be removed from the material – but descriptions given by people who actually experienced ten days to two weeks in disgusting, smelly, unsanitary steerage make you sympathize and force you to view the statistics in a different light.  Can you imagine living in the belly of a boat with 150 other people for two whole weeks in your own excrement without washing, eating soggy bread, a “queer, unanalyzable mix of vegetables,” and stinking, rotting meat and fish? When I imagine picking the worms out of my food, or sleeping on a cot infested with insects, or even not showering for more than a few days I am completely, beyond grossed out.

Hundreds of thousands of people who came to the United States had to endure horrific conditions just to be here. My question is: is it really worth it? In most cases, I don’t really think it is. When you think about it, most of the immigrants who came here in the early 1900’s came to live in slums and work multiple, miserable, menial, minimum wage jobs. What’s worse is that the first generation immigrants never really reap the benefits of their labor – it’s their children who live quasi-comfortable lives at their parent’s expense.

Although much has changed for the “New Immigrants,” such as a more comfortable journey through JFK, and the “New Immigrants” themselves have changed to include well-trained, skilled workers and college graduates – a lot is still the same. The “Old Immigrants” (who were mainly peasants and unskilled laborers) and “New Immigrants” are still doing a lot of the same menial jobs.  Isn’t the fact that  “the Korean greengrocer and the Indian newsstand dealer on the corner may have college and even graduate degrees” sort of upsetting?

Think of all the things immigrants have to give up to be Americans. Some dish out thousands of dollars for fake paper work, some endure terrible journeys in steerage, and some have to give up their highly respected professions and status to start over as janitors or street vendors. For the poorest of the poor or the people who are actually suffering because of an oppressive government (like the Russian Jews) or from hunger or extreme poverty (like the Irish immigrants during the potato famine), maybe coming to America could be worth it, but for the middle classes of immigrants, I don’t think it is, especially if “Americans” who are of your same class in whatever country you were from are going to look down on you just because you are an immigrant here.

The immigration pattern to America has greatly changed over the years, in who and why they are coming. First the Irish because of the famine, then the Italians for job oportunities, then the Chinese for religious and commercial purposes. Nowadays there are immigrants coming in from all over the place for all sorts of reasons.

Like ToniAnn says, without the different types of immigrants coming to America all those years ago, the diversity present in New York City would not exist. It’s very exciting to think that Five Points alone was home to first New Yorkers, then the Irish, then the Italian, and then the Chinese, who turned it into the thriving Chinatown we know today. People from other countries make it their priority to get to America, and especially to New York City, whether by legal means or not. Many families were split up in order to get to New York City. Husbands would come first leaving wives and children, who waited in their home countries for years sometimes. Other times, a man and wife would come to America, leaving their children behind. After earning enough money, they would send back for those they left in their country, and they would reunite with their families.

Why so many people would want to come to and stay in America is a strange concept, because although there were more opportunities to make money, the treatment of immigrants was absolutely horrible. In Anbinder’s book, he says that many men returned to their countries in order to buy land, or returned only for the winters when there was no work. But he says that most returned to America a few months later. This is what strikes me as odd. If they made so much money while they were here, and took it back home to buy land and make something out of it, why would they ever return to America, where they are constantly mistreated?

Like William says in his blog, most of the Old Immigrants were coming in order to start over and “breathe free.” This comcept of a better life in America existed in most other countries, and is what seduced many people into immigrating here. However, once here, the competition and jealousy for land and acceptance became outraageous and led to laws being passed against immigrants. As much as this was supposed to help, all it did was lead to the breaking of laws by immigrants who either came in illegally, or who overstayed their visas in order to stay in this country.

In Susan’s bog, she points out that discrimination is less of an issue in today’s society, and that the hardships puling immigrants to America are probably not very likely to happen nowadays. I believe this to be very true. However, in America, and especially in New York, we are still very well off in economic and political aspects. This still attracts many people to New York, but of much higher diversity. Now there are immigrants from Hispanic countries, as well as the age old immigrants from Europe and  Asia.