Foner’s chapter contrasting old and new immigrants was really interesting.  The way she describes the old immigrants (poor and wretched) are the way I imagined most immigrants today.  I didn’t realize that today most immigrants are from professional and middle class.  Foner was right when she said that just because the immigrants come from poor and uneducated nations, it doesn’t mean they themselves are poor and uneducated.

I didn’t realize it but most immigrants have college degrees and skillful expertise.  But if a lot of them have these college degrees, then why do they take unskilled jobs like working in factories, taxi driver, supermarkets, etc.?  Is it because they don’t speak the language? Or are they illegal immigrants and don’t have papers?

This chapter taught me a LOT about illegal immigrants.  I honestly had no idea that most illegal immigrants were actually more educated/skilled than the legal immigrants!  If they were really so much better than the legal immigrants, then why don’t we just let them in legally?  Or if it’s because there’s no room, then we should let them in instead of the uneducated legal immigrants.

I never realized how easy it was and how many ways there are to sneak into the country.  I naively thought illegal immigrants snuck over the border, or as stowaways on ships.  I didn’t know that the most common way was to get a temporary visa and never go back when it expired.  Or that you could forge papers or take someone else’s passport.

It’s crazy how much things changed regarding the trip over to America.  The journey immigrants went through back then was so dangerous and so long.  Many people didn’t make it and died before America- they came under such inhumane conditions!  Now it is so easy- you get on a nice, comfortable plane in your normal clothes, and make it to America within a few hours, and under humane conditions, too.

Foner mentioned that sometimes families would separate and come in “chain migration”- one half came first and sent for the other.  But when Ainbinder described the types of separation, I was shocked.  I can’t imagine a mother leaving her four year old son alone in her home country.  Who took care of the child?  What if they weren’t reunited?

I liked reading about the Irish potato blight from the immigrant’s standpoint of how it affected them.  Reading about the immigrants’ personal stories was much more meaningful than looking at charts with numbers.  I learned about the potato blight before, but it never seemed like such a big deal.  Reading about how dependent the Irish were on potatoes was crazy.  I can’t imagine eating 14 pounds of potatoes a day, and eating nothing but potatoes.  How did they manage to be day laborers and do all that work eating nothing but potatoes?  Reading about the starvation and disease was awful.

I felt so bad for the little Italian children who were sold to play music on the street.  I hate the padroni!  How could they abuse the small Italian children?  And are those the same padroni that helped immigrants get work, but basically took all their money while visiting the immigrants at work and threatening them with guns?  I really don’t like them.

In both readings the authors, Foner and Anbinder share the horrifying personal experiences of immigrants from Italy and China. In “From Ellis Island to JFK,” Foner relays their descriptions of their journeys taken to come to the United States. One journalist posing as an immigrant from Naples in 1906 wrote: “How can a steerage passenger remember that he is a human being when he must first pick the worms his food…and eat in his stuffy, stinking bunk, or in the hot and fetid atmosphere of a compartment where 150 men sleep, or in juxtaposition to a seasick man.”

While reading the dense statistics, brief narratives such as the one above are what really stood out to me in the readings. Looking at charts and percentages, it is easy to be removed from the material – but descriptions given by people who actually experienced ten days to two weeks in disgusting, smelly, unsanitary steerage make you sympathize and force you to view the statistics in a different light.  Can you imagine living in the belly of a boat with 150 other people for two whole weeks in your own excrement without washing, eating soggy bread, a “queer, unanalyzable mix of vegetables,” and stinking, rotting meat and fish? When I imagine picking the worms out of my food, or sleeping on a cot infested with insects, or even not showering for more than a few days I am completely, beyond grossed out.

Hundreds of thousands of people who came to the United States had to endure horrific conditions just to be here. My question is: is it really worth it? In most cases, I don’t really think it is. When you think about it, most of the immigrants who came here in the early 1900’s came to live in slums and work multiple, miserable, menial, minimum wage jobs. What’s worse is that the first generation immigrants never really reap the benefits of their labor – it’s their children who live quasi-comfortable lives at their parent’s expense.

Although much has changed for the “New Immigrants,” such as a more comfortable journey through JFK, and the “New Immigrants” themselves have changed to include well-trained, skilled workers and college graduates – a lot is still the same. The “Old Immigrants” (who were mainly peasants and unskilled laborers) and “New Immigrants” are still doing a lot of the same menial jobs.  Isn’t the fact that  “the Korean greengrocer and the Indian newsstand dealer on the corner may have college and even graduate degrees” sort of upsetting?

Think of all the things immigrants have to give up to be Americans. Some dish out thousands of dollars for fake paper work, some endure terrible journeys in steerage, and some have to give up their highly respected professions and status to start over as janitors or street vendors. For the poorest of the poor or the people who are actually suffering because of an oppressive government (like the Russian Jews) or from hunger or extreme poverty (like the Irish immigrants during the potato famine), maybe coming to America could be worth it, but for the middle classes of immigrants, I don’t think it is, especially if “Americans” who are of your same class in whatever country you were from are going to look down on you just because you are an immigrant here.

The immigration pattern to America has greatly changed over the years, in who and why they are coming. First the Irish because of the famine, then the Italians for job oportunities, then the Chinese for religious and commercial purposes. Nowadays there are immigrants coming in from all over the place for all sorts of reasons.

Like ToniAnn says, without the different types of immigrants coming to America all those years ago, the diversity present in New York City would not exist. It’s very exciting to think that Five Points alone was home to first New Yorkers, then the Irish, then the Italian, and then the Chinese, who turned it into the thriving Chinatown we know today. People from other countries make it their priority to get to America, and especially to New York City, whether by legal means or not. Many families were split up in order to get to New York City. Husbands would come first leaving wives and children, who waited in their home countries for years sometimes. Other times, a man and wife would come to America, leaving their children behind. After earning enough money, they would send back for those they left in their country, and they would reunite with their families.

Why so many people would want to come to and stay in America is a strange concept, because although there were more opportunities to make money, the treatment of immigrants was absolutely horrible. In Anbinder’s book, he says that many men returned to their countries in order to buy land, or returned only for the winters when there was no work. But he says that most returned to America a few months later. This is what strikes me as odd. If they made so much money while they were here, and took it back home to buy land and make something out of it, why would they ever return to America, where they are constantly mistreated?

Like William says in his blog, most of the Old Immigrants were coming in order to start over and “breathe free.” This comcept of a better life in America existed in most other countries, and is what seduced many people into immigrating here. However, once here, the competition and jealousy for land and acceptance became outraageous and led to laws being passed against immigrants. As much as this was supposed to help, all it did was lead to the breaking of laws by immigrants who either came in illegally, or who overstayed their visas in order to stay in this country.

In Susan’s bog, she points out that discrimination is less of an issue in today’s society, and that the hardships puling immigrants to America are probably not very likely to happen nowadays. I believe this to be very true. However, in America, and especially in New York, we are still very well off in economic and political aspects. This still attracts many people to New York, but of much higher diversity. Now there are immigrants from Hispanic countries, as well as the age old immigrants from Europe and  Asia.

What immigrants endured to set foot on the soil we are all on at the present moment….whoa.

There really is no comparison between the journey to America for the “old immigrants” and the “new immigrants.” As William mentioned, the conditions that the old immigrants experienced were simply horrifying, but they were determined to persevere and start anew. I found it interesting, though, that many of the immigrants who arrived in New York did hold some degree of advanced education and some previously acquired skills. A percentage of the newcomers were even professionals in certain fields. When imagining the first immigrants who traveled to America, I have an image in my mind of immigrants staggering forward in rags, exhausted from their grueling journey, lacking confidence, struggling to communicate, fearful expressions on their faces and somewhat ignorant.

It was also interesting to discover that most of the illegal immigrants have not “snuck secretly across the border or hidden out in boats.” (Foner.) Most of the currently undocumented immigrants have entered on a temporary visa, and become illegal once they extend their stay past the date they were allowed to. But the fact that these immigrants have to provide proof to consulate officials that they have financial reason to return to their home country indicates what these immigrants are willing to do in order to live in America. Living in America, for them, is having their dream fulfilled. I take it for granted that I’m able to live in this country, abound with opportunities of every kind.

Though I also wondered why people with degrees would risk economic demotion by immigrating to America, I though of a few reasons why one would still leave. First of all, political oppression would definitely be a factor in one’s decision to leave. But also, based on the concept of chain migration, if the majority of one’s family has already immigrated to America, he will probably want to travel to America as well. Even if he had a steady job and income in his homeland, he may just hope to transport his business to America (which, after all, is the “Golden Land,”) in order to be with his family.

In response to ToniAnn’s spark regarding racism among different ethnic groups in America, I don’t think this was something new or something that is likely to change drastically in the near future. (Sigh.) As unfortunate as it may be, I cannot think of any community whose inhabitants get along in perfect harmony—differences among the people are bound to exist, giving rise to stereotypes, and once stereotypes exist, there is plenty of room for discrimination and hostility. I think that the only way that racism and tension can truly be eliminated is with the entire community’s willingness and efforts. The chance of this happening? Possible, but rare, I believe.

In any case, the Five Points described in the book is long gone—what used to be a particularly diverse area is now solely the home of the Chinese. It makes me wonder if the New York we all know of today will be the same—in just the near future.

Reading some of the terrible experiences that the immigrants had in their homeland, it became clearer to me why they would immigrate, even to Five Points. Yes, Five Points was not a perfect place and many immigrants lived crowded together in tenements, but they had opportunities in New York that didn’t exist for them at home. The Irish, for example, were living in destitute conditions because of the potato famine and people were dying from starvation. The Italians and Chinese immigrants, from the way Anbinder describes them, came from poor areas or from areas where they were not accepted. They believed that New York was a place where they would prosper.

I agree with ToniAnn that the way the Irish treated the new immigrants was unfair. They were all aspiring for similar goals, but instead of understanding their struggles and having compassion, there was some hostility. However, I can understand why the Irish acted this way. They were afraid that the new immigrants would replace them in their jobs and neighborhood where they had already established themselves. 

I also like William’s comparison between the Old and New immigrants in New York. Many of the Old immigrants were from Europe from poor areas and without education. Now, while we receive immigrants from Europe, we also get a substantial amount from areas such as the Caribbean, Asia, and the West Indies, just to name some major groups. Immigrants continue to arrive in America and New York because they hear from relatives and people from their towns about the amenities that they had obtained in New York that maybe they would not have at home. Also, according to Foner, another major reason why they come to New York because they can. Unlike the Old immigrants, who came together in boats that were in horrible conditions, or as stowaways on a cargo ship, now the New Immigrants have the ease of taking an airplane. From what I understand from both readings, immigration patterns continue to change, as well as the reasons for moving, but New York seems to be the place of interest and New York continues to receive them.

Like everyone has mentioned, the chapters in Anbinder were utterly painful to read. People in modern times have a concept of poverty that cannot even come close to the hell on earth faced by the Irish during the 1800s- both in their homeland and then in New York.  To imagine living without ceilings, on dirt floors, with no beds, surrounded by corpses on the streets- these people must have been walking zombies!  I remember one horrifying account in the book of Irish  crawling on all fours, scrounging for any food they could find.

This reminded me of something I learned in psychology: Maslow’s concept of the hierarchy of needs. Basically life is like a pyramid with basic needs at the base, such as food and water.  Without these basic needs, one cannot focus on those categories further up the pyramid: security/property, love, esteem, and finally “self actualization” or inner peace.  The fact that people lived in such horrid conditions, and had barely any property of their own meant that they couldn’t even get over the first rung of the ladder; they lived meal to meal, job to job- basically like animals.  In a sense they had “freedom” and “wages” but were no better off than slaves…slaves to their own needs, trapped without any immediate hope for social mobility or creative pursuit.  I think this ties in to the concept of “wage slavery” we learned last week in class.  According to the reading, some of these people made $10 a year or less….I don’t even have the words to react to that!

In the reading we also learned of the immigrant groups who came after the Irish, who had a slightly better situation, but nevertheless still went through a hell of their own.  I found it sad, but also a little interesting to read of the selling of Italian children as essential slave labor, as well as the Italian workforce’s replacement of the Irish.  It was also to interesting to read about how the Chinese fared, who they married and how they were perceived  It seems that with each generation a new “layer” of immigrants is added to the US, and the previous layer seems to gain a better footing economically. Also, as many others mentioned, Foner compares old immigrants to the new immigrants of today, who can reach the US by plane in a few hours wearing “designer jeans” in contrast to in a tightly packed, disease-ridden ship,wearing only rags.

However, like Praveena, I am puzzled as to why some immigrants with graduate degrees or specialized jobs come to America and are willing to experience a downgrade in economic stability: like the example she brought up of the Indian doctor becoming a taxi driver Perhaps that is something we will explore further.

Let me begin by saying that while I agree with everyone that Anbinder clearly describes the difficulties the Irish faced back in Ireland, and perhaps for some the conditions in America were better, the prologue to chapter 12 entitled “These ‘Slaves of the Harp,'” showed me a side of New York I knew little about. When I finished reading that anecdote, my only response was “wow.” I felt so much compassion for those Italian children who immigrated to New York and were forced to play music on the street all day. They received little food, were rarely given clean clothing, and slept in cramped quarters. They were beaten and deprived of even these necessities if they did not return to their bosses with enough money.

On the flip side, the many different ethnic groups of Five Points probably made it an interesting place to live. I agree with Toniann that the ethnic diversity of Five Points almost 100 years ago definitely adds variety to our lives today. It is also interesting that many different ethnic groups came and settled in this one location, and were able to all reside together. Even though each nationality had specific blocks, they still resided near one another. People on the next block could have spoken an entirely different language! Anbinder points out, not surprisingly, that there was tension between the groups. The tension between the Irish and the Italians stemmed from differing religious views, but there was also tension between the Irish and the Chinese. Overall, the groups faced similar difficulties and living conditions. They came here and lived in apartments and boarding houses. They opened businesses or engaged in manual labor.

It is also interesting that certain ethnic groups were associated with certain businesses. Irish had their banks, and the Chinese had both cigar making and laundry businesses. Also, overall, the book Five Points teaches us not to judge and that first impressions are not always correct. To me, the most ironic sentence was, “At first, Americans looked upon Chinese cooking with suspicion. But curious Americans soon began to patronize these eateries, and by the 1890’s, Caucasians ventured to Chinatown just for the food.” Now, almost every New York family has Chinese take out menus hanging on their refrigerators.

Like ToniAnn, I was horrified after reading about the circumstances of the Irish before they immigrated to America. I felt like each page was a scene from a horror movie brought to life. It is really scary to imagine that famine actually killed so many people. But it was even more heartbreaking to read that a lot of the immigrants don’t survive the journey to America, or else they die soon after arriving to America. I never really considered some of the specific reasons as to why so many of the Old Immigrants would come over here, and I find it interesting and innovative that some of the marquis would pay for people to emigrate. The situation was actually bad enough that sending people away would save more money than sustaining them. But what’s worse is that many of the people chosen were people who were deemed unfit to make the journey, and emigration was used as a tool to weed people out of the land. I’ve also never really considered emigration and immigration to America to be a trend (and in both the old and new immigrations). It seems like such a big decision to be made, yet so many people do it everyday in such vast amounts. I guess the decision is made easier through chain migration, since many people won’t be absolutely “alone” in the new world. I think this is especially true with the padrones and the Chinese grocery stores.

I felt like the Five Points chapters that we read were really interesting, because I have grown up around the area, but I haven’t really given much thought to the history to many of the things I have see everyday. One of them is the Transfiguration Church. I used to go there to learn Chinese, and I remember vaguely thinking that it was odd for a Catholic church to be in Chinatown. But I never really thought much further than that. And now, after reading all these chapters, I find out that many different groups had used it before, and that it had a history of group conflicts. I had recently read an article where they said that the Church has mass given in English and Chinese (Cantonese and Mandarin), and that confessions are taken in many different languages. In the future, I think this will probably change again as different ethnic groups move in and out of the area. Another building I haven’t given much thought to was the Church of the Most Precious Blood. It seemed a little out of place then, but now, it makes a lot of sense, especially in historical context. And now, after reading about the celebration of San Rocco, I realized that the San Gennaro fair was also a celebration of a patron Saint (of Naples). But at the same time, it’s fascinating to know that even back then, some things were generally the same, like how a lot of the Chinese residents back then came from the Guangdong region, and how Chinatown was known for it’s food and was able to draw non-Asian people to eat there regularly. But now, I think more people from the Fujian region are immigrating to Chinatown.

Anbinder was specific about the reasons that drove the Irish to immigrate to America, but he was less focused on specific reasons for the Italians. Foner was able to supply some of these reasons, and it was very enlightening. At first, I felt like the new wave of immigrants driven less by specific events that happen in their country than by general circumstances. But I realized that these specific events can be traced back to certain political decisions and other factors that causes theses circumstances in the first place. This leads to the conclusion that, like Foner says, reasons for immigration for both the old and new waves are more similar than we think. I thought it was interesting when Foner mentions that one of the reasons why people immigrate to America today is because of lifestyle. In today’s capitalist society, we are very much focused on consumerism, and getting the latest things. A lot of people in other countries can’t afford to do that. For some, even a refrigerator is not convenient because it uses too much electricity. This gives me more insight on my dad’s fascination of getting the latest phone, while also making me more appreciative of the things I am able to have, just by living in America.

I think the contrast between the old immigrants and new immigrants bought up by William is a very interesting idea. In the 1800s, the immigrants were indeed “poor” and “…yearning to breathe free.” By reading Anbinder’s book, you can see just how deeply they yearned by learning about the conditions the old immigrants went through. After reading the chapters, I was shocked and horrified at the same time. Anbinder compared the conditions on the immigrant ship to those on a slave ship, in which hundreds of passengers were literally stuffed into a confined and dark space.

When I read about the conditions on the ship and the ones in the immigrants’ own homeland, I kind of understand why people became selfish and greedy. This brings me to ToniAnn’s point. I totally agree with the fact that immigrants have no right to discriminate against each other. In fact, they should be sympathizing instead. But after reading Anbinder’s book, I give the Irish a little more slack. After so much turmoil and hardship in life, I can see why they wouldn’t want the other immigrant groups taking up jobs or space. I think this is the case with anyone who has worked hard for something in life. It’s natural to be jealous and selfish. I actually think it’s part of human nature.

I also think that discrimination today is a lot less prevalent because it is so easy to get to America by airplane. Hardship is also avoided now that we have so much technology and money as a nation (for the most part). A famine would probably be very hard to come by now that theirs thousands of acres of farm land and machinery/factories to assist in the food production process. This is not to say that discrimination is non-existent, because it will always be there. However, discrimination on the basis of “competition” is definitely less prevalent.